1 00:00:08,090 --> 00:00:06,180 all right good afternoon I'm Daniel 2 00:00:10,500 --> 00:00:08,100 Sheehan from the University of San Diego 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:10,510 today I'd like to give a brief talk 4 00:00:15,509 --> 00:00:12,730 about a very large subject called time 5 00:00:16,590 --> 00:00:15,519 which is foundational not just to 6 00:00:19,020 --> 00:00:16,600 everything that occurs because 7 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:19,030 everything occurs in time but because 8 00:00:23,130 --> 00:00:21,130 the subject of time is undergoing I 9 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:23,140 would say rather rapid change possibly 10 00:00:27,300 --> 00:00:25,810 paradigm will change in physics over the 11 00:00:29,610 --> 00:00:27,310 last ten to twenty years has become 12 00:00:32,490 --> 00:00:29,620 fairly evident that our understanding of 13 00:00:35,130 --> 00:00:32,500 time is possibly certainly needs some 14 00:00:38,580 --> 00:00:35,140 sort of tweaking and possibly complete 15 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:38,590 reconstruction and so what I'd like to 16 00:00:47,190 --> 00:00:41,610 talk about is turn the whole thing off 17 00:00:50,030 --> 00:00:47,200 again okay is to talk it's about time to 18 00:00:52,590 --> 00:00:50,040 talk seriously about time because in 19 00:00:55,590 --> 00:00:52,600 discussing time physicists typically 20 00:00:57,569 --> 00:00:55,600 make kind of personal prejudices about 21 00:00:59,130 --> 00:00:57,579 how it should be approached and as a 22 00:01:01,650 --> 00:00:59,140 result I think we're missing a number of 23 00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:01,660 opportunities which I think SSC in 24 00:01:07,309 --> 00:01:03,910 particular is well situated to address 25 00:01:09,749 --> 00:01:07,319 in particular issues associated with SCI 26 00:01:14,879 --> 00:01:09,759 consciousness and the ontology of 27 00:01:17,489 --> 00:01:14,889 quantum mechanics so my talk will use as 28 00:01:18,690 --> 00:01:17,499 its lever the process of retro causation 29 00:01:21,599 --> 00:01:18,700 which has only really come into fashion 30 00:01:23,069 --> 00:01:21,609 over the last ten years or so and in 31 00:01:26,609 --> 00:01:23,079 order to do this I'd like first to talk 32 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:26,619 about time symmetry and asymmetry and 33 00:01:31,379 --> 00:01:29,170 then talk about retro causation as it 34 00:01:35,370 --> 00:01:31,389 occurs both in theory and an experiment 35 00:01:38,940 --> 00:01:35,380 and then a brief theory that Patricia 36 00:01:41,179 --> 00:01:38,950 Cyrus and I developed about several 37 00:01:43,559 --> 00:01:41,189 years ago which may help explain 38 00:01:46,499 --> 00:01:43,569 precognition and finally some possible 39 00:01:48,539 --> 00:01:46,509 applications of this I would like to 40 00:01:51,389 --> 00:01:48,549 acknowledge a number of people to begin 41 00:01:54,779 --> 00:01:51,399 first of all Patricia Cyrus and I'm 42 00:01:59,879 --> 00:01:54,789 Absalon litzer Eli Cohen Julia Moss 43 00:02:02,429 --> 00:01:59,889 bridge and I've seen yes and Garrett 44 00:02:05,129 --> 00:02:02,439 Medel Garrett sorry and finally this is 45 00:02:07,409 --> 00:02:05,139 um this talk is dedicated to Richard 46 00:02:11,220 --> 00:02:07,419 shout who was one of our valued 47 00:02:13,289 --> 00:02:11,230 colleagues here so first of all the 48 00:02:15,899 --> 00:02:13,299 fundamental equations of physics are 49 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:15,909 time symmetric and what that means is 50 00:02:19,410 --> 00:02:17,530 that if one takes positive 51 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:19,420 time and replaces it with negative time 52 00:02:25,020 --> 00:02:23,050 one gets the same equations back so for 53 00:02:27,270 --> 00:02:25,030 instance if one looks at Newton's second 54 00:02:28,890 --> 00:02:27,280 law force equals MA mass times 55 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:28,900 acceleration which is a second time 56 00:02:33,449 --> 00:02:31,690 derivative of position if one puts in 57 00:02:34,650 --> 00:02:33,459 positive time down here obviously which 58 00:02:38,130 --> 00:02:34,660 you square it you get a positive number 59 00:02:40,020 --> 00:02:38,140 but if you put a negative time since the 60 00:02:42,570 --> 00:02:40,030 time is squared in the denominator it 61 00:02:45,570 --> 00:02:42,580 becomes positive as well and so the 62 00:02:47,910 --> 00:02:45,580 equation is the same whether it is time 63 00:02:50,090 --> 00:02:47,920 forward or time reversed and this is 64 00:02:54,540 --> 00:02:50,100 fundamentally true of all the equations 65 00:02:58,290 --> 00:02:54,550 of physics they keep turning this off 66 00:03:01,020 --> 00:02:58,300 okay so to put this into into concrete 67 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:01,030 perspective consider a hill in which you 68 00:03:06,509 --> 00:03:03,730 have a ball which is presently situated 69 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:06,519 in the middle of the hill you woods you 70 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:08,530 could say that in the past it was at the 71 00:03:11,550 --> 00:03:10,330 top of the hill in the future it is at 72 00:03:13,830 --> 00:03:11,560 the bottom of the hill and you could and 73 00:03:15,150 --> 00:03:13,840 you would possibly say well why is it at 74 00:03:17,220 --> 00:03:15,160 the at the middle of the hill right now 75 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:17,230 is it because it was at the top of the 76 00:03:22,020 --> 00:03:19,930 hill earlier or is it because it is at 77 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:22,030 the bottom of the hill later and the 78 00:03:27,180 --> 00:03:24,850 answer is it's both you can calculate 79 00:03:29,100 --> 00:03:27,190 the present position of this ball by 80 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:29,110 working a time forward set of solutions 81 00:03:34,289 --> 00:03:31,690 from the past into the present or you 82 00:03:35,550 --> 00:03:34,299 could take the future solution where it 83 00:03:37,590 --> 00:03:35,560 happens in the future and run it 84 00:03:40,110 --> 00:03:37,600 backward in time and get the exact same 85 00:03:42,060 --> 00:03:40,120 result and this is also true in quantum 86 00:03:46,460 --> 00:03:42,070 mechanics both of these basic theories 87 00:03:49,140 --> 00:03:46,470 are deterministic but our everyday 88 00:03:51,390 --> 00:03:49,150 expression or feeling about time is not 89 00:03:54,270 --> 00:03:51,400 that way we noticed that in fact there 90 00:03:56,580 --> 00:03:54,280 is an arrow of time the the idea of the 91 00:03:59,310 --> 00:03:56,590 arrow of time was first proposed back 92 00:04:00,599 --> 00:03:59,320 about 1927 by Arthur Eddington one of 93 00:04:02,759 --> 00:04:00,609 the contemporary contemporaries of 94 00:04:04,590 --> 00:04:02,769 Einstein and there have been a number of 95 00:04:07,259 --> 00:04:04,600 arrows of time that have been proposed 96 00:04:09,539 --> 00:04:07,269 you have the cosmological arrow which 97 00:04:11,900 --> 00:04:09,549 indicates the direction of expansion of 98 00:04:14,940 --> 00:04:11,910 the universe but the cosmological arrow 99 00:04:17,180 --> 00:04:14,950 also has embedded in it in a sense or as 100 00:04:20,009 --> 00:04:17,190 in the initial conditions a very low 101 00:04:22,890 --> 00:04:20,019 entropy for the original configuration 102 00:04:25,020 --> 00:04:22,900 of the universe the one that more or 103 00:04:26,219 --> 00:04:25,030 less tempers and structures our everyday 104 00:04:29,130 --> 00:04:26,229 experience is what's called the 105 00:04:30,690 --> 00:04:29,140 thermodynamic arrow which is which is 106 00:04:31,330 --> 00:04:30,700 conditioned by the second law of 107 00:04:33,370 --> 00:04:31,340 thermodynamics 108 00:04:35,140 --> 00:04:33,380 the entropy change of any spontaneous 109 00:04:38,290 --> 00:04:35,150 process in the universe is always 110 00:04:40,570 --> 00:04:38,300 greater than or equal to zero this in 111 00:04:43,450 --> 00:04:40,580 turn probably conditions the radiation 112 00:04:45,159 --> 00:04:43,460 arrow of time and the personal 113 00:04:47,710 --> 00:04:45,169 psychological arrow of time that all of 114 00:04:50,379 --> 00:04:47,720 us experience as our experience sense 115 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:50,389 that time moves forward other area 116 00:04:53,439 --> 00:04:52,010 arrows have been proposed for instance 117 00:04:56,950 --> 00:04:53,449 the wavefunction collapse but that's 118 00:05:00,520 --> 00:04:56,960 model dependent and then some very 119 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:00,530 subtle subatomic processes like K on 120 00:05:07,330 --> 00:05:04,850 decay which have also been implicated so 121 00:05:08,379 --> 00:05:07,340 in in looking at the arrow of time one 122 00:05:10,090 --> 00:05:08,389 should think about the difference 123 00:05:12,610 --> 00:05:10,100 between what's a reversible and an 124 00:05:14,409 --> 00:05:12,620 irreversible process so a reversible 125 00:05:16,870 --> 00:05:14,419 process would be something like this a 126 00:05:18,790 --> 00:05:16,880 ball being thrown in the air if I throw 127 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:18,800 it up and it comes down if I reverse 128 00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:20,810 that process it comes up and comes down 129 00:05:25,050 --> 00:05:22,850 and you can't tell whether the time is 130 00:05:28,570 --> 00:05:25,060 coming forward or backward for this ball 131 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:28,580 because both of them are physically 132 00:05:33,100 --> 00:05:30,650 reasonable in either direction you can't 133 00:05:36,969 --> 00:05:33,110 tell but there are some processes like 134 00:05:39,340 --> 00:05:36,979 52-card pick up which indeed are time 135 00:05:42,100 --> 00:05:39,350 asymmetric so if you take something like 136 00:05:43,750 --> 00:05:42,110 a deck of cards it is possible that if I 137 00:05:45,670 --> 00:05:43,760 flip this deck of cards it will land in 138 00:05:47,529 --> 00:05:45,680 a perfect stack on the floor in front of 139 00:05:49,540 --> 00:05:47,539 me and then all the molecules reverse 140 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:49,550 their direction and the stack will come 141 00:05:55,029 --> 00:05:52,130 back into my hand but that never happens 142 00:05:56,980 --> 00:05:55,039 I can do this for 10,000 times the age 143 00:05:58,629 --> 00:05:56,990 of the universe and you will never see 144 00:06:01,810 --> 00:05:58,639 this happen that is an irreversible 145 00:06:04,570 --> 00:06:01,820 process and this is conditioned by the 146 00:06:06,370 --> 00:06:04,580 second law of thermodynamics the change 147 00:06:11,290 --> 00:06:06,380 in entropy for any spontaneous process 148 00:06:13,990 --> 00:06:11,300 is never less than zero so this is the 149 00:06:15,909 --> 00:06:14,000 arrow the in a sense the master arrow of 150 00:06:22,990 --> 00:06:15,919 our experience although other ones have 151 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:23,000 been proposed now in terms of at the 152 00:06:26,469 --> 00:06:24,650 foundational level at the quantum 153 00:06:29,290 --> 00:06:26,479 mechanical basis of quantum mechanical 154 00:06:32,500 --> 00:06:29,300 base a number of quantum models do admit 155 00:06:34,570 --> 00:06:32,510 the possibility of reverse arrow of time 156 00:06:36,909 --> 00:06:34,580 in other words processes which you could 157 00:06:39,450 --> 00:06:36,919 call retro causal these go back more 158 00:06:43,570 --> 00:06:39,460 than 60 years to cost on devote 159 00:06:46,779 --> 00:06:43,580 Beauregarde and the two that I find 160 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:46,789 most compelling are the transactional 161 00:06:51,399 --> 00:06:49,250 which was developed by 1986 by John's 162 00:06:53,469 --> 00:06:51,409 Kramer and the two state vector 163 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:53,479 formalism which was developed by her 164 00:07:00,640 --> 00:06:57,530 onif Bergman and label which about fifty 165 00:07:02,649 --> 00:07:00,650 years ago for illustration purposes I'd 166 00:07:03,959 --> 00:07:02,659 like to discuss simply the transactional 167 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:03,969 because it's the most intuitive 168 00:07:09,070 --> 00:07:07,370 developed by Kramer based on John 169 00:07:12,459 --> 00:07:09,080 wheeler and Richard Feynman's model of 170 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:12,469 electrodynamics in 1945 this model is 171 00:07:16,899 --> 00:07:14,810 quite nice in the sense that it it 172 00:07:23,709 --> 00:07:16,909 solves many of the ontological and 173 00:07:25,029 --> 00:07:23,719 epistemological Heian interpretation for 174 00:07:28,390 --> 00:07:25,039 instance the wave function is 175 00:07:30,189 --> 00:07:28,400 ontologically real in the transactional 176 00:07:31,689 --> 00:07:30,199 model whereas in the copenhagen model 177 00:07:33,399 --> 00:07:31,699 it's simply epistemic it's a 178 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:33,409 mathematical structure that tells you 179 00:07:38,769 --> 00:07:35,210 about information about a system not 180 00:07:40,899 --> 00:07:38,779 about its reality it also the retro 181 00:07:42,879 --> 00:07:40,909 causal model also gives some meaning to 182 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:42,889 the wave function the standard wave 183 00:07:49,330 --> 00:07:47,210 function psy is is given by a as a 184 00:07:51,189 --> 00:07:49,340 wave which means a wave that 185 00:07:52,930 --> 00:07:51,199 goes from the past into the future this 186 00:07:55,269 --> 00:07:52,940 would be the ket and standard Dirac 187 00:07:56,950 --> 00:07:55,279 notation and the advanced wave which 188 00:07:59,680 --> 00:07:56,960 goes from the future into the past would 189 00:08:02,829 --> 00:07:59,690 be psystar the complex conjugate or the 190 00:08:04,809 --> 00:08:02,839 bra what the present amounts to is a 191 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:04,819 handshake agreement between the future 192 00:08:10,269 --> 00:08:07,610 and the past such that it is logically 193 00:08:13,180 --> 00:08:10,279 consistent and in in tune with all the 194 00:08:14,950 --> 00:08:13,190 conservation laws what's interesting 195 00:08:16,869 --> 00:08:14,960 about the transactional model is that 196 00:08:20,019 --> 00:08:16,879 since it admits both a forward and and 197 00:08:23,350 --> 00:08:20,029 advanced wave of equal stature on equal 198 00:08:25,170 --> 00:08:23,360 footing in doing this you solve the most 199 00:08:27,790 --> 00:08:25,180 pernicious problems in quantum mechanics 200 00:08:31,089 --> 00:08:27,800 quantum mechanics is renowned for its 201 00:08:33,130 --> 00:08:31,099 paradoxes things like the EPR paradox 202 00:08:36,630 --> 00:08:33,140 cruisers cat the wheeler delayed choice 203 00:08:39,610 --> 00:08:36,640 put dearly on wheelers delayed choice 204 00:08:41,259 --> 00:08:39,620 problem the big nurse friends and on and 205 00:08:44,769 --> 00:08:41,269 on and on there are more than a dozen or 206 00:08:46,650 --> 00:08:44,779 more standard problems in quantum 207 00:08:50,470 --> 00:08:46,660 mechanics which are called paradoxes 208 00:08:53,949 --> 00:08:50,480 virtually all of these in fact Kramer 209 00:08:56,610 --> 00:08:53,959 claims all of these can be resolved 210 00:09:00,510 --> 00:08:56,620 effortlessly by taking the 211 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:00,520 advanced wave seriously so this talk is 212 00:09:05,220 --> 00:09:02,710 really about taking time seriously 213 00:09:07,769 --> 00:09:05,230 looking at the equations of physics at 214 00:09:11,940 --> 00:09:07,779 face value trusting what they say and 215 00:09:13,650 --> 00:09:11,950 the and and the dividend for this is 216 00:09:15,530 --> 00:09:13,660 that you solve some of the most 217 00:09:18,030 --> 00:09:15,540 pernicious problems in quantum mechanics 218 00:09:21,510 --> 00:09:18,040 so let's take a look at what happens in 219 00:09:23,579 --> 00:09:21,520 a in a standard problem associated with 220 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:23,589 the transactional interpretation so 221 00:09:27,540 --> 00:09:25,930 let's consider what it takes to see the 222 00:09:29,940 --> 00:09:27,550 star Betelgeuse in the constellation 223 00:09:31,740 --> 00:09:29,950 Orion the constellation Orion is kind of 224 00:09:33,630 --> 00:09:31,750 set out here here are the three stars 225 00:09:35,820 --> 00:09:33,640 over the belt on the top right hand 226 00:09:38,370 --> 00:09:35,830 corner or the shoulder of Orion is the 227 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:38,380 star Betelgeuse the distance about 500 228 00:09:43,079 --> 00:09:41,290 to 525 a years away here's a spacetime 229 00:09:46,650 --> 00:09:43,089 diagram where time is on this axis 230 00:09:48,750 --> 00:09:46,660 spaces on this axis so the way through 231 00:09:50,490 --> 00:09:48,760 the transactional model the way you see 232 00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:50,500 light from Betelgeuse on a starry night 233 00:09:59,130 --> 00:09:54,910 is in the following way the star emits a 234 00:10:02,010 --> 00:09:59,140 wave in to along the light cone 235 00:10:02,699 --> 00:10:02,020 in the direction of the present and when 236 00:10:05,010 --> 00:10:02,709 it gets here 237 00:10:07,110 --> 00:10:05,020 there is a choice made to offer a 238 00:10:09,810 --> 00:10:07,120 response wave which comes back from the 239 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:09,820 from the future backward to the star 240 00:10:15,150 --> 00:10:12,490 this is done a temporarily when this 241 00:10:17,730 --> 00:10:15,160 occurs if there's a stochastic choice 242 00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:17,740 and a transaction is undergone whereby 243 00:10:21,090 --> 00:10:19,510 the whereby the standard observed 244 00:10:23,250 --> 00:10:21,100 quantities conserved quantities like 245 00:10:24,750 --> 00:10:23,260 energy and momentum are transacted and 246 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:24,760 when all of all agreements have been 247 00:10:30,150 --> 00:10:27,250 made and handshake has been reached you 248 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:30,160 suddenly see the photon and so you you 249 00:10:34,380 --> 00:10:31,930 have the you have the and 250 00:10:37,350 --> 00:10:34,390 advance wave on equal footing and this 251 00:10:39,990 --> 00:10:37,360 handshake then is creates the present 252 00:10:41,850 --> 00:10:40,000 but what's but what is what what is 253 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:41,860 different from what everyone from what 254 00:10:48,540 --> 00:10:44,410 most scientists presume is that the 255 00:10:49,769 --> 00:10:48,550 future wave now exists now when it comes 256 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:49,779 to emission and absorption 257 00:10:54,630 --> 00:10:51,730 they are simply time reverse processes 258 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:54,640 so emission going forward in time is 259 00:10:58,620 --> 00:10:56,050 equal to absorption going backward in 260 00:11:00,660 --> 00:10:58,630 time and vice-versa so one could eat 261 00:11:03,030 --> 00:11:00,670 just as easily take some take the 262 00:11:05,819 --> 00:11:03,040 advanced wave as the offer wave coming 263 00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:05,829 back in time and the response wave 264 00:11:09,490 --> 00:11:07,570 coming from the past if you would have a 265 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:09,500 truly symmetric 266 00:11:15,370 --> 00:11:13,850 symmetric theory so experiments in retro 267 00:11:17,380 --> 00:11:15,380 causation actually go back quite a ways 268 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:17,390 or can be interpreted as such for 269 00:11:22,060 --> 00:11:19,250 instance a wheelers daily choice back in 270 00:11:24,670 --> 00:11:22,070 1984 was was pretty much sewn up in 271 00:11:26,020 --> 00:11:24,680 about 2007 by Jacques Adal there have 272 00:11:27,700 --> 00:11:26,030 been a number of human studies which can 273 00:11:31,300 --> 00:11:27,710 be interpreted in terms of retro causal 274 00:11:34,690 --> 00:11:31,310 behavior mostly well and these in this 275 00:11:37,330 --> 00:11:34,700 case in terms of precognition a number 276 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:37,340 of conferences have now been convened at 277 00:11:41,230 --> 00:11:39,170 my university to discuss the issue of 278 00:11:44,950 --> 00:11:41,240 retro causation and a number of speakers 279 00:11:49,830 --> 00:11:44,960 in this room have attended to try to 280 00:11:52,630 --> 00:11:49,840 shore up these ideas so a hypothesis 281 00:11:54,970 --> 00:11:52,640 remote-viewing precognition can be 282 00:11:57,100 --> 00:11:54,980 explained at least in part by retro 283 00:11:59,920 --> 00:11:57,110 causal influences between the viewers 284 00:12:02,110 --> 00:11:59,930 future and present selves so in the 285 00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:02,120 transactional model one would have the 286 00:12:08,950 --> 00:12:05,360 future self here sending back a wave 287 00:12:11,050 --> 00:12:08,960 into the past getting a response wave of 288 00:12:13,930 --> 00:12:11,060 getting getting a response way back and 289 00:12:16,060 --> 00:12:13,940 if a transaction is complete one has one 290 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:16,070 has effectively information transfer 291 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:19,130 from the future into the past no energy 292 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:21,770 is transferred necessarily this is this 293 00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:24,530 can be this would be a effectively a 294 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:27,910 correlation so you have science I star 295 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:31,850 so this model on which which Patricia 296 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:34,130 Cyrus and I have have worked on has 297 00:12:38,770 --> 00:12:36,650 three three assumptions first of all you 298 00:12:41,140 --> 00:12:38,780 take seriously the time symmetry in the 299 00:12:42,970 --> 00:12:41,150 equations of physics no longer do you 300 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:42,980 you follow the idea that there's simply 301 00:12:47,740 --> 00:12:45,170 causality there should be also retro 302 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:47,750 causality in the equations to honor the 303 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:50,450 equations themselves if you do that then 304 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:52,370 it follows that you can also apply the 305 00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:54,530 second law back in time with a caveat 306 00:12:59,470 --> 00:12:56,480 because the second law does have a 307 00:13:01,090 --> 00:12:59,480 loophole in it and third are their 308 00:13:03,700 --> 00:13:01,100 quantum correlates to consciousness 309 00:13:04,690 --> 00:13:03,710 because this this model presumes some 310 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:04,700 sort of quantum correlative 311 00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:06,290 consciousness which allows these 312 00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:09,680 transactions to occur so is the brain 313 00:13:13,540 --> 00:13:11,690 quantum mechanical in nature in some 314 00:13:15,070 --> 00:13:13,550 respects well at the microscopic level 315 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:15,080 it has to be because it's made out of 316 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:16,970 out of atoms and molecules there's no 317 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:19,370 real question about that but as one 318 00:13:23,420 --> 00:13:21,050 moves up to the meso scopic scale to the 319 00:13:26,329 --> 00:13:23,430 size scales of microtubules and synapse 320 00:13:28,910 --> 00:13:26,339 it's been argued such by by Stuart 321 00:13:30,769 --> 00:13:28,920 Hameroff Roger Penrose and others but 322 00:13:34,249 --> 00:13:30,779 there's a good deal of controversy along 323 00:13:37,309 --> 00:13:34,259 these lines but it is it is plausible at 324 00:13:39,470 --> 00:13:37,319 the macroscopic scale perhaps but by no 325 00:13:43,309 --> 00:13:39,480 means has this been shown to be true 326 00:13:44,990 --> 00:13:43,319 however I would argue that the best 327 00:13:46,309 --> 00:13:45,000 evidence that there are quantum 328 00:13:50,179 --> 00:13:46,319 correlates to consciousness is 329 00:13:52,460 --> 00:13:50,189 precognition itself because if this 330 00:13:54,110 --> 00:13:52,470 model is reasonable and a classical 331 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:54,120 model as far as I can tell would not 332 00:13:58,970 --> 00:13:56,610 allow this if we want to work within the 333 00:14:01,639 --> 00:13:58,980 paradigm of quantum mechanics then the 334 00:14:02,869 --> 00:14:01,649 very existence of precognition indicates 335 00:14:04,699 --> 00:14:02,879 that you have quantum correlates of 336 00:14:09,199 --> 00:14:04,709 consciousness will allow which would 337 00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:09,209 allow moving this hypothesis forward but 338 00:14:14,269 --> 00:14:11,279 then there is the famous veil of the 339 00:14:17,449 --> 00:14:14,279 second law and the second law as many of 340 00:14:19,550 --> 00:14:17,459 you know is considered the ultimate law 341 00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:19,560 of fit of nature at least according to 342 00:14:24,319 --> 00:14:22,649 Eddington but what you're basically 343 00:14:26,329 --> 00:14:24,329 doing is playing probability in loose 344 00:14:30,139 --> 00:14:26,339 terms so if you look at the number of 345 00:14:32,030 --> 00:14:30,149 microstates that correspond to a system 346 00:14:33,650 --> 00:14:32,040 out of equilibrium it constantly 347 00:14:37,220 --> 00:14:33,660 increases in time this is the number of 348 00:14:39,980 --> 00:14:37,230 ways in which the system can can't exist 349 00:14:42,019 --> 00:14:39,990 in and this is the time coordinate so 350 00:14:43,730 --> 00:14:42,029 the thermodynamic arrow presumably works 351 00:14:45,499 --> 00:14:43,740 in the following fashion if one 352 00:14:48,650 --> 00:14:45,509 considers the present moment you have a 353 00:14:50,929 --> 00:14:48,660 number of microstates or associated or 354 00:14:54,650 --> 00:14:50,939 complexions associated with it and if 355 00:14:56,870 --> 00:14:54,660 one looks at the present state it can in 356 00:14:59,150 --> 00:14:56,880 principle communicate with let's say an 357 00:15:01,220 --> 00:14:59,160 offer wave into the future in multiple 358 00:15:04,610 --> 00:15:01,230 ways because presumably there are more 359 00:15:06,559 --> 00:15:04,620 ways for it to move forward into more 360 00:15:08,870 --> 00:15:06,569 into more possible States because of the 361 00:15:11,499 --> 00:15:08,880 increase in entropy then going backward 362 00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:11,509 and so normally you would see time going 363 00:15:17,870 --> 00:15:14,639 forward and your experience is moving in 364 00:15:19,939 --> 00:15:17,880 that direction likewise when you have 365 00:15:23,660 --> 00:15:19,949 wavefunction collapse decoherence can be 366 00:15:28,059 --> 00:15:23,670 looked at in loosely as a quantum 367 00:15:31,610 --> 00:15:28,069 version of the second law however 368 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:31,620 imagine a following situation let's 369 00:15:37,310 --> 00:15:34,050 consider having a future state of the 370 00:15:39,230 --> 00:15:37,320 brain being completely unique you know 371 00:15:40,940 --> 00:15:39,240 the organization of neurons that gives 372 00:15:44,090 --> 00:15:40,950 rise to a thought and again nobody knows 373 00:15:45,769 --> 00:15:44,100 really what what corresponds to a memory 374 00:15:48,380 --> 00:15:45,779 or a thought and this is one of the the 375 00:15:50,690 --> 00:15:48,390 principal lacunae of the of the of the 376 00:15:52,490 --> 00:15:50,700 theory and in science but if that's the 377 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:52,500 case and this is a unique wave function 378 00:15:57,980 --> 00:15:55,410 if it sends waves both into the forward 379 00:15:59,449 --> 00:15:57,990 into the waves into the future 380 00:16:01,550 --> 00:15:59,459 and it advanced waves backwards 381 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:01,560 if this is a unique completely unique 382 00:16:04,970 --> 00:16:03,330 wave function in the universe there is 383 00:16:07,820 --> 00:16:04,980 nothing to absorb it as it moves 384 00:16:10,670 --> 00:16:07,830 backward along its its path into the 385 00:16:12,949 --> 00:16:10,680 past when it reaches the past it can 386 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:12,959 encounter the an identical set of 387 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:14,730 neurons after all it is the same brain 388 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:17,370 and both of these both of these are 389 00:16:22,130 --> 00:16:19,050 energized by biochemical processes 390 00:16:24,530 --> 00:16:22,140 therefore it has the energy and to to 391 00:16:26,420 --> 00:16:24,540 change it can send an advanced wave 392 00:16:29,690 --> 00:16:26,430 forward and if a handshake agreement is 393 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:29,700 agreed to then you have a transmission 394 00:16:34,490 --> 00:16:31,850 or a change 395 00:16:36,980 --> 00:16:34,500 created by in the future into the past 396 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:36,990 this would correspond to a precognitive 397 00:16:39,740 --> 00:16:37,770 event 398 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:39,750 this requires specificity of the wave 399 00:16:43,699 --> 00:16:41,970 function and again as I mentioned what 400 00:16:45,650 --> 00:16:43,709 it takes to have a thought is still an 401 00:16:47,540 --> 00:16:45,660 open question however this is plausible 402 00:16:50,410 --> 00:16:47,550 from the point of view that quantum 403 00:16:54,530 --> 00:16:50,420 information does use the idea of 404 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:54,540 isolation of particular wave function 405 00:16:59,690 --> 00:16:57,810 within Hilbert space to guarantee lack 406 00:17:02,000 --> 00:16:59,700 of decoherence this is these are called 407 00:17:05,419 --> 00:17:02,010 decoherence free subspaces so this idea 408 00:17:07,669 --> 00:17:05,429 has has currency and quantum information 409 00:17:11,660 --> 00:17:07,679 already though not at the level of the 410 00:17:14,929 --> 00:17:11,670 brain of course so if if one can explain 411 00:17:18,829 --> 00:17:14,939 and if in fact a precognition is a form 412 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:18,839 of Retro causation that satisfies second 413 00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:20,850 law constraints because after all what 414 00:17:27,140 --> 00:17:23,760 happens back here is you responding to 415 00:17:28,940 --> 00:17:27,150 your future precognitive event you would 416 00:17:30,919 --> 00:17:28,950 have entropy being produced at this 417 00:17:34,580 --> 00:17:30,929 location so this satisfies the second 418 00:17:36,730 --> 00:17:34,590 law and it also satisfies the 419 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:36,740 constraints of quantum mechanics as well 420 00:17:40,940 --> 00:17:39,210 if this is possible then I would propose 421 00:17:44,330 --> 00:17:40,950 that one way to studied it and perhaps 422 00:17:46,909 --> 00:17:44,340 to to well certainly detest it is to try 423 00:17:48,530 --> 00:17:46,919 building a precognitive apparatus that 424 00:17:50,810 --> 00:17:48,540 would be a that would be a quantum 425 00:17:53,450 --> 00:17:50,820 device with a large number with 426 00:17:56,450 --> 00:17:53,460 with sufficient complexity that it is 427 00:18:00,110 --> 00:17:56,460 completely specific in other words let's 428 00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:00,120 say unique in the universe and then put 429 00:18:05,930 --> 00:18:03,360 a random input into it such that it can 430 00:18:07,879 --> 00:18:05,940 it can register that send back an offer 431 00:18:09,620 --> 00:18:07,889 wave get a response way back in 432 00:18:13,460 --> 00:18:09,630 principle and if you had something like 433 00:18:15,470 --> 00:18:13,470 a 21 digit number this has in in the in 434 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:15,480 the random number in the future well a 435 00:18:20,330 --> 00:18:17,850 21 digit number where the digits are 0 436 00:18:22,159 --> 00:18:20,340 to 9 you could take a thousand of those 437 00:18:23,629 --> 00:18:22,169 numbers per second for the age of the 438 00:18:25,159 --> 00:18:23,639 universe and not really expect to get a 439 00:18:27,499 --> 00:18:25,169 repeat so if you had a truly random 440 00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:27,509 number or a large random number here and 441 00:18:32,419 --> 00:18:30,000 you got that information before it was 442 00:18:36,590 --> 00:18:32,429 created in the future you could in 443 00:18:38,980 --> 00:18:36,600 principle kind of validate the 444 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:38,990 hypothesis that precognition is possible 445 00:18:42,590 --> 00:18:41,370 this Oracle of course would be useful 446 00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:42,600 because it would allow you to push 447 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:45,120 forward questions associated with the 448 00:18:49,789 --> 00:18:47,610 ontology of quantum mechanics and the 449 00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:49,799 nature of time but also perhaps give 450 00:18:54,289 --> 00:18:52,320 some some legs and support to the idea 451 00:18:56,180 --> 00:18:54,299 of precognition that allow us to study 452 00:19:00,009 --> 00:18:56,190 precognition more carefully might be 453 00:19:02,539 --> 00:19:00,019 able to tweak parameters of the system 454 00:19:05,330 --> 00:19:02,549 ok so again the Oracle would be quantum 455 00:19:07,549 --> 00:19:05,340 mechanical it would be isolated from 456 00:19:10,639 --> 00:19:07,559 decoherence in a way perhaps similar to 457 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:10,649 decoherence free subspace how they do it 458 00:19:15,619 --> 00:19:12,570 and it would be complex highly specific 459 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:15,629 wave function so in summary so in 460 00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:18,090 summary physical laws are temporally 461 00:19:22,940 --> 00:19:20,460 symmetric but our experience of reality 462 00:19:26,690 --> 00:19:22,950 is asymmetric asymmetric primarily due 463 00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:26,700 to the second law some quantum models do 464 00:19:30,499 --> 00:19:28,769 admit retro cause causal behavior but 465 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:30,509 all the basic laws of physics do allow 466 00:19:35,450 --> 00:19:33,330 retro causal events as well there seems 467 00:19:37,549 --> 00:19:35,460 to be experiment very good experimental 468 00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:37,559 support for retro causation largely by 469 00:19:45,019 --> 00:19:42,809 people in this room some some brain 470 00:19:46,369 --> 00:19:45,029 processes are processes are likely 471 00:19:49,399 --> 00:19:46,379 quantum mechanical by the very existence 472 00:19:51,289 --> 00:19:49,409 of things like precognition the second 473 00:19:53,090 --> 00:19:51,299 law apparently can be bi-directional in 474 00:19:55,039 --> 00:19:53,100 time as long as entropy increases with 475 00:19:59,450 --> 00:19:55,049 each event going either into the future 476 00:20:00,619 --> 00:19:59,460 or into the past and precognition could 477 00:20:03,379 --> 00:20:00,629 be quantum mechanically 478 00:20:04,540 --> 00:20:03,389 thermodynamically based and I think it 479 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:04,550 is time for someone to 480 00:20:11,770 --> 00:20:06,890 we try to build a quantum Oracle to test 481 00:20:14,860 --> 00:20:11,780 some of these hypotheses so this final 482 00:20:17,770 --> 00:20:14,870 board chalkboard is one of the last 483 00:20:21,070 --> 00:20:17,780 emails from Richard shop and I have it 484 00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:21,080 pinned up end over my desk to remind me 485 00:20:29,650 --> 00:20:25,510 humorously of of who'd dick was but also 486 00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:29,660 to inspire me and so thank you for your 487 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:41,639 [Applause] 488 00:20:48,549 --> 00:20:45,580 thanks Jen that's really it gets you 489 00:20:54,460 --> 00:20:48,559 thinking we do have a few minutes for 490 00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:54,470 questions so Dan I just have a 491 00:20:58,750 --> 00:20:56,240 suggestion yes 492 00:21:02,380 --> 00:20:58,760 you're the device you were talking about 493 00:21:05,409 --> 00:21:02,390 building is it sort of digital device 494 00:21:07,450 --> 00:21:05,419 intended to be unique there's something 495 00:21:10,029 --> 00:21:07,460 I had thought about many years ago but 496 00:21:15,310 --> 00:21:10,039 seems applicable in this context is the 497 00:21:18,629 --> 00:21:15,320 idea of a crystal that has so many 498 00:21:20,259 --> 00:21:18,639 unique facets to it that it is not 499 00:21:22,629 --> 00:21:20,269 reproducible I mean it would be 500 00:21:24,580 --> 00:21:22,639 completely unique doing something like 501 00:21:27,580 --> 00:21:24,590 sending light through that crystal in 502 00:21:30,220 --> 00:21:27,590 the future and then seeing you know 503 00:21:33,039 --> 00:21:30,230 whether you have a relationship between 504 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:33,049 the past something that occurs to the 505 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:35,450 crystal in the past in relation to the 506 00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:37,250 future so I just offer that as a 507 00:21:39,220 --> 00:21:38,000 suggestion 508 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:39,230 I think the person behind you is 509 00:21:44,590 --> 00:21:43,370 actually trying something like that yes 510 00:21:46,090 --> 00:21:44,600 but I mean it would have to satisfy 511 00:21:47,769 --> 00:21:46,100 certain constraints would have to be 512 00:21:49,870 --> 00:21:47,779 truly unique it would probably have to 513 00:21:52,090 --> 00:21:49,880 be a driven system like our like our 514 00:21:54,159 --> 00:21:52,100 brains are driven such that if you send 515 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:54,169 back let's say a signal 516 00:21:57,399 --> 00:21:55,490 it could be something similar to what 517 00:21:59,710 --> 00:21:57,409 happens in a laser where if you have if 518 00:22:01,509 --> 00:21:59,720 you have stimulated emission in a laser 519 00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:01,519 a photon moving through the laser cavity 520 00:22:06,970 --> 00:22:04,370 can hit a metastable atom or molecule 521 00:22:08,799 --> 00:22:06,980 and cause it to emit without actually 522 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:08,809 transferring any energy that photon 523 00:22:13,509 --> 00:22:11,210 continues and yet the atom itself has 524 00:22:15,850 --> 00:22:13,519 stimulated emission so you can you can 525 00:22:19,269 --> 00:22:15,860 in principle calculate the transmission 526 00:22:21,070 --> 00:22:19,279 I should say that the transition rates 527 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:21,080 between the future in the past using 528 00:22:26,289 --> 00:22:23,450 something like a Fermi golden rule but 529 00:22:28,330 --> 00:22:26,299 what's really missing from this is what 530 00:22:30,460 --> 00:22:28,340 constitutes a thought or an experience 531 00:22:32,379 --> 00:22:30,470 such that when you have a flash of an 532 00:22:34,539 --> 00:22:32,389 auto accident or a flash of a number of 533 00:22:36,850 --> 00:22:34,549 friends face who hasn't visited you yet 534 00:22:38,889 --> 00:22:36,860 what corresponds to that in the brain 535 00:22:40,539 --> 00:22:38,899 and having spoken to a number of 536 00:22:43,810 --> 00:22:40,549 neuroscientists nobody seems to know 537 00:22:46,269 --> 00:22:43,820 what that is that is I think one of the 538 00:22:48,639 --> 00:22:46,279 linchpin lacunae of this entire project 539 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:48,649 so your crystal may be a good idea but 540 00:22:52,529 --> 00:22:50,770 it has to be pretty unique 541 00:22:58,320 --> 00:22:52,539 in order for it to work not not to 542 00:23:00,539 --> 00:22:58,330 organize Julia so first of all I'm 543 00:23:02,399 --> 00:23:00,549 outing you so when you say a quantum 544 00:23:03,899 --> 00:23:02,409 Oracle are you talking about as a time 545 00:23:05,370 --> 00:23:03,909 machine certain just letting everyone 546 00:23:07,919 --> 00:23:05,380 know he's talking about a time machine 547 00:23:09,570 --> 00:23:07,929 second of all but okay having said that 548 00:23:11,399 --> 00:23:09,580 having said that I would like to I would 549 00:23:13,860 --> 00:23:11,409 like to I would like to issue a warning 550 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:13,870 in that much of the problem the SSC 551 00:23:18,090 --> 00:23:15,970 faces and I believe this is something 552 00:23:20,700 --> 00:23:18,100 that is right down the alley of SSC and 553 00:23:22,649 --> 00:23:20,710 it can affect our understanding of the 554 00:23:24,090 --> 00:23:22,659 foundations of time the ontology of 555 00:23:25,889 --> 00:23:24,100 quantum mechanics consciousness 556 00:23:27,810 --> 00:23:25,899 precognition all of these things but 557 00:23:29,940 --> 00:23:27,820 when you start using words that have a 558 00:23:32,970 --> 00:23:29,950 lot of baggage carried with them it 559 00:23:33,769 --> 00:23:32,980 works against us in a way so but it is a 560 00:23:36,210 --> 00:23:33,779 time machine 561 00:23:37,980 --> 00:23:36,220 time travel is an awesome word and 562 00:23:46,889 --> 00:23:37,990 should work for us but if you if you go 563 00:23:48,149 --> 00:23:46,899 back can you go back to yeah so here's 564 00:23:49,860 --> 00:23:48,159 what I don't understand about that so 565 00:23:51,810 --> 00:23:49,870 from my reading of transactional 566 00:23:54,060 --> 00:23:51,820 interpretation and I admit I can't I 567 00:23:56,010 --> 00:23:54,070 feel like John Kramer's and it's very 568 00:23:58,769 --> 00:23:56,020 dense so I ended up reading both Kastner 569 00:24:00,299 --> 00:23:58,779 and I think she's excellent right so she 570 00:24:02,490 --> 00:24:00,309 has a possiblest interpretation which is 571 00:24:07,169 --> 00:24:02,500 not exactly the same as John Kramer's 572 00:24:08,789 --> 00:24:07,179 but is that the floor with this kind of 573 00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:08,799 model because people approach her with 574 00:24:13,799 --> 00:24:11,529 his model right number one that's last 575 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:13,809 meeting she discussed this she sees and 576 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:15,610 they still don't understand how you see 577 00:24:21,810 --> 00:24:18,010 this but she sees that because it's a 578 00:24:24,690 --> 00:24:21,820 temporal the offer and and the 579 00:24:25,980 --> 00:24:24,700 acceptance wave are a temporal then 580 00:24:28,620 --> 00:24:25,990 they're actually it's like almost like a 581 00:24:30,630 --> 00:24:28,630 third position so it's not between the 582 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:30,640 present and the future because those are 583 00:24:34,950 --> 00:24:32,890 temporal it's like this so it's like 584 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:34,960 retro correlative not retro yeah you 585 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:36,610 know I myself don't really believe in 586 00:24:40,409 --> 00:24:38,770 causation or or retro causation these 587 00:24:41,399 --> 00:24:40,419 are just words that people like as 588 00:24:43,950 --> 00:24:41,409 signposts 589 00:24:46,260 --> 00:24:43,960 I believe in correlations strong 590 00:24:47,549 --> 00:24:46,270 correlations people call causal because 591 00:24:49,620 --> 00:24:47,559 it allows them to build them build a 592 00:24:51,419 --> 00:24:49,630 model and tell a story but in fact the 593 00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:51,429 world's made out of far as I can tell 594 00:24:57,330 --> 00:24:53,200 simply correlations some of which are 595 00:25:03,370 --> 00:25:00,640 okay I waiting for you you may be well I 596 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:03,380 I actually don't have anything to say 597 00:25:09,010 --> 00:25:06,170 about your talk in and of itself well 598 00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:09,020 what are you doing here I wanted to 599 00:25:14,230 --> 00:25:11,600 commend to your attention in case you 600 00:25:17,620 --> 00:25:14,240 haven't read it maybe you have a book by 601 00:25:21,730 --> 00:25:17,630 Lee Smolin called time reborn published 602 00:25:23,620 --> 00:25:21,740 2013 small enzymatic physicist be a 603 00:25:27,790 --> 00:25:23,630 great SSC member if he weren't afraid of 604 00:25:29,980 --> 00:25:27,800 our reputation but he's he basically got 605 00:25:32,770 --> 00:25:29,990 fed up with conventional interpretations 606 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:32,780 of time and tried to recast physics in a 607 00:25:41,140 --> 00:25:35,210 way that makes the present moment unique 608 00:25:41,890 --> 00:25:41,150 and important thank you thank you very